Racist jokes and a note on Valentines
I recently had a debate with a friend about the use of racially derogatory language. We couldn’t come to any mutual agreement after several sessions, and there’s a lot of interesting points that came up. It started with me sharing some rather harsh and racist jokes with her and she getting offended (despite being the same race and religion as I). She was particularly peeved about the use of the word nigger in humour. It should be said that she’s a Brit Lankan (SL parents but born and bred in the UK) and that i’m a Lankan lankan (SL parents born and bred in SL).
The word nigger is rather harsh, and I would never use it in front of a black person bc whether or not it offends them, it’s not very respectful. As my friend pointed out, it has very deep and unpleasant roots, touching on slavery and oppression. I have no issues about using that word, and other potentially insulting racial caricatures as long as it is in good humour and nobody of that race is within earshot and as long as nobody else gets offended by such usage. If my intention is not to harm anyone, and nobody does get harmed by my use of such language, I do not see it as a problem. Also if it can make some ppl laugh, surely that’s a good thing? I wouldn’t really have a problem if somebody took the piss out of me as long as I didn’t get to hear about it (and as long as those ppl aren’t my friends or some ppl that I care about).
So why did my saying nigger in a joke bother her so much? Her argument was that it’s a matter of cultural difference. Back in SL the word nigger doesn’t really carry as much historical baggage as it does in England, and it carries less baggage in England than it does in the Southern USA. Over here ppl have friends, colleagues etc. who are black, and therefore the word nigger carries more personal implications. I guess it makes sense, in that I don’t use words that are derogatory to Tamils, and that’s probably influenced by the fact that I have several Tamil friends. And maybe if i had more black friends i’d be somehow more averse to the word nigger. But, again i don’t have a problem about jokes being made about the Sinhalese be it about laziness or any other caricatures that exist. The aversion to the word nigger could also be the result of a guilty conscience, not that my friend or her ancestors had any part in slavery and black oppression, but Western society in general will carry that weight for some time. Any reminder/reference to that time would be frowned upon.
The interesting thing is that black ppl tend to use the word nigger quite liberaly amongst themselves, and so what makes it so bad for others to use it? (not on other blacks but amongst themselves). As I just mentioned, I often poke fun at Sinhalese laziness. She suggested that this could be an attempt to desentisize the word, but I didn’t buy that, at least it seems unlikely that it is a conscious effort in this regard.
The question is, why involve race in humour anyway? I guess the world would be better off with less racially centered humour, I mean, there’s still plenty of less umm crude things to chuckle at. Having said that, I don’t think it’s such a big deal. It’s not like my (and all other non-blacks) not saying the word nigger is going to eradicate the word from the English language, just get a 50cent CD and there’ll be enough of it to make up for all of us. I’d argue that if I’m willing to enjoy some humour out of Sinhalese caricatures, there’s no reason that others can’t do the same. Similarly, if black ppl happily say the word nigger there’s no reason for others to consider it utterly taboo.
But the obvious caveat is the intention of the use of the language. I would not want to say anything racially charged to offend somebody. As long as one’s intention is for humour, and not to intentionally demean another person, then it’s alrite. Racist jokes are just caricatures, it’s not that every jew is stingy, or that every sinhalese is lazy or that every irishman is slightly dim, it’s just an excuse for a giggle. I mean, I know only 2 Irishman, both of whom are fairly smart, and yet i’d say irish jokes bc they’re funny, not bc I think Irish ppl are stupid. But, one ought to be sensitive and not say Irish jokes in front of an Irishman. (Or if you really have to, be sure to say it real slow). I kid.
A couple of days late, but these days everybody seems to be dissing Valentines day. And that’s a shame. I know it’s all commercialized and got a bit silly, but I think it should be seen as an excuse to have a nice time. Forget the chocolates and flowers and things, but it’s a great excuse to go out, have a nice meal and do something fun with your partner or just your friends even. It’s like Christmas, i’m not Christian but it’s nice to put a tree and exchange presents and eat some rich food. What the hell, any excuse for a party no? Just jump on the bandwagon and have some fun.
P.s. What do you call a black man flying a plane? A pilot! You racist, what were you thinking? (Thanks to S)
ddm : its very sweet of you to defend valentine’s day, but it seems to have lost its validity, if any, due to the massive commercial hype. its just that people, as is usual with many holidays or special days as such it seems, seem to have forgotten why its been set aside in the first place. besides, i dont think something like love needs a day for celebration? surely, the whole point is that its consistent and for real.
Comment by Electra — February 16, 2006 @ 4:10 pm
Electra - I agree 100%. Special days have to a great extent lost their validity, and love doesn’t need a day for celebration. But why be so serious? come 14th Feb or 25th december, we have two options. Sit in front of the tele and look grumpy, or go out and have some fun. I say screw the moral high ground and choose the latter
Comment by ddm — February 16, 2006 @ 4:16 pm
I’d argue that if I’m willing to enjoy some humour out of Sinhalese caricatures, there’s no reason that others can’t do the same. Similarly, if black ppl happily say the word nigger there’s no reason for others to consider it utterly taboo.
Not so simple bro’!
The best counter argument I saw was in a TV show.
Here is what I remember………
It was “Boston Public” in FOX,sometime around 2002 .I didn’t like that show that much but somehow ended up watching that particular episode by accident .It created a minor scandal at the time I guess.FOX re-ran the episode next week.
Boston Public is a show about a public school in Boston(d’uh!).In that episode a white guy calls his black friend nigga(as usually the case with the friends).The friend is OK with it.Somehow another black guy hears this and beat the hell out of the white guy.
After investigating the incident a young teacher(played by Micheal Rappaport) have devotes a full period to the issue .He ask people to refer book Nigger by Randall Kennedy(Check Amazon).Devoting a whole period to this issue heats up the tension in the school ,too.
Coming back to the story ..
The guy who beat up the white guy gives the explantion why blacks can call each other nigger not others.It goes sort of like this ..”I can argue and fight with my mother .I can call her anything I want ,but I cannot let anybody else diss my mother ”
Calling Sinhalese Lazy doesn’t come close to calling somebody nigger.
Comment by chandare — February 16, 2006 @ 5:04 pm
Not so simple bro’!
The best counter argument I saw was in a TV show.
Here is what I remember………
It was “Boston Public” in FOX,sometime around 2002 .I didn’t like that show that much but somehow ended up watching that particular episode by accident .It created a minor scandal at the time I guess.FOX re-ran the episode next week.
Boston Public is a show about a public school in Boston(d’uh!).In that episode a white guy calls his black friend nigga(as usually the case with the friends).The friend is OK with it.Somehow another black guy hears this and beat the hell out of the white guy.
After investigating the incident a young teacher(played by Micheal Rappaport) have devotes a full period to the issue .He ask people to refer book Nigger by Randall Kennedy(Check Amazon).Devoting a whole period to this issue heats up the tension in the school ,too.
Coming back to the story ..
The guy who beat up the white guy gives the explantion why blacks can call each other nigger not others.It goes sort of like this ..”I can argue and fight with my mother .I can call her anything I want ,but I cannot let anybody else diss my mother ”
Calling Sinhalese Lazy doesn’t come close to calling somebody nigger.
Comment by chandare — February 16, 2006 @ 5:05 pm
There’s a distinction between calling yourself lazy and having others call you that
(also, more insight into the history of the term here)
The same objection to race related humour could be legitimately made about gender related jokes, in-law jokes and plenty more besides … It’s all in the context. Being quoted out of context using such a word could probably lead to an uncomfortable social situation somewhere or the other - that’s a good reason to avoid the term.
Comment by drac — February 16, 2006 @ 5:14 pm
Sri Lankans think its no big deal, but the N word carries serious connotations in many other civilized countries.
It’s one of those little things people here just don’t get
Oh, hate to burst your bubble but that word isn’t used only against Black people, its also used to refer to Asians…
I can’t really explain it to you, but the best I can say is, don’t mention it to people, especially Americans or Brits, even in the context of a joke.
Just my 0.02
Comment by null — February 16, 2006 @ 5:50 pm
All true, it would be stupid/insensitive to use the word nigger or any other racially derogatory word in front of a black person (same applying for other races), that goes without saying. My point is, what is so wrong about racial humour if a member of the race in question is not present? and therefore nobody gets affected adversely. (unless as drac said you are quoted out of context, which would be bad news).
chandare - lazy sinhalese and nigger are like apples and oranges, totally incomparable but both fruits
Didn’t mean to imply any comparison.
Drac - when i said that since black ppl say nigger it’s ok for others to use the word, i didn’t mean that they have the right to use it on other blacks, i meant amongst themselves. But I can see why that para sounds ambiguous, apologies.
Comment by ddm — February 16, 2006 @ 8:16 pm
In the words of Chef from SouthPark “I aint touchin that with a 10 foot pole”. There’s no answer to this question machang. The problem is the word has become mainstream due to the ents industry and some people are confused as to how to use it, or if they’re allowed to use it.
Maybe totally unrelated,but I saw this prog on telly yesterday about these kids with Tourette’s and they were let loose in public, and said it quite a few times, surprisingly, they didn’t get the living shit kicked out of them. Does this mean people are more tolerant than we think they are? Or does it mean the word is just a label? Rap uses the word positively while the KKK and co. user it in a negative light, does this mean that people will react to it differently depending on how they percieve themselves? For example, a lot of people say “dhemala” etc., to me, it just means Tamil, but the way some people use it is derogatory on occasion and that is annoying. But if this is the case then I’m happy to say fuck it and walk away from it.
Comment by Curious Yellow — February 17, 2006 @ 11:28 am
Aaargh I spelt perceive wrong! Sorry for crapping on your blog macho!
Comment by Curious Yellow — February 17, 2006 @ 11:29 am
You may not use it in front of black ppl but you never know who its going to offend. For example, i am Sri Lankan but am marrying a black man in four months time. Some time ago, one of my dad’s friends made a crude remark about Africans using the ‘N’ word. All i had to say was that my boyfriend is black (not an easy task in front of a gathering of Sri Lankan elders) for an embarrassed silence and general feeling of uncomfortableness (if thats a word) to descend on the group and kill the mood (with me being at fault of course - but thats another story)
My point is…maybe its better not to make racist jokes no matter the company. You wont offend anyone by not doing it. Hell, i have had to keep my favourite joke in the entire world to myself for fear of getting run over by teams of angry people in wheelchairs.
Besides, to justify a racist joke as plain humour is opening the door to justify racism in other seemingly innocent contexts.
I have to say that i have had the ‘why cant i use it if you use it argument?’ with him. Still dont quite get that.
Comment by rayray — February 17, 2006 @ 1:25 pm
imo if one is not a racist, using a ‘racist’ joke should not offend. that is why use of word ‘nigger’ by a black person will not offend other black ppl.
in case of others it is harder to tell whether the person is a racist or not, but imo it is incumbent on the offended party to be tolerant if there is no other evidence of racism on the part of the joker. after all by being offended you are accusing others of racism probably disregarding all other evidence to the contrary . which is also offensive.
as for real racists, i don’t think they will much care anyway.
Comment by sittingnut — February 17, 2006 @ 4:13 pm
man..you have to live in a western country for a long time to really understand why its not acceptable. Basically the word has come to be used primarily by racists and avoided by normal/civilized people. so if someone says it there’s an implication that person may have hidden racist tendencies. And that is not considered a good thing..I hope you get that.
It’s very much a cultural thing. In western societies respect for minorities (or even just people), political correctness is a VERY BIG part of the cultural fabric. And this all ties in to that.
In SL it’s totally different..this sort of thing is not considered important.
It’s not just about what you say and who you offend but the type of person you show yourself to be.
Comment by dgoda — February 19, 2006 @ 5:34 am
dGoda, i totally disagree. It’s not part of SL culture to not be tolerant and considerate of minorities, it’s just that the type of minorities are different over here than in Western countries so in SL the word nigger is not a big deal and in most countries the word kaffir is not a big deal but in South Africa it’s a very big deal.
Maybe respect for minorities is a big part of Western culture, but I’ve lived in England for 3.5 years and have experienced plenty of racially abusive language. Ask any cricket team touring Australia whether they’d agree with you. You’re taking the cultural difference thing much too far.
I also don’t think that saying a racist joke makes you a racist, similarly saying a blonde joke doesn’t make you a umm blonde hater. It’s all about intentions, not about appearences.
Comment by ddm — February 19, 2006 @ 12:45 pm
Then does drinking 40s, rolling in droptops with 20″ rims, with my hos make me a nigger?
Comment by Curious Yellow — February 19, 2006 @ 1:33 pm
It makes you a wannabe
Comment by ddm — February 19, 2006 @ 1:57 pm
so its perfectly acceptable for you if people you know in England make ‘paki’ jokes about you as long as you’re not within earshot?
Comment by dgoda — February 20, 2006 @ 12:03 am
“I wouldn’t really have a problem if somebody took the piss out of me as long as I didn’t get to hear about it (and as long as those ppl aren’t my friends or some ppl that I care about). “
Comment by ddm — February 20, 2006 @ 12:44 am
Ok. if your friends, say of another race, make ‘paki’ jokes about you, still a joke - no ill will, then you would have a problem with that?
Comment by dgoda — February 20, 2006 @ 2:51 am
I for one wouldn’t mind, and I think ddm is a pretty liberal bugger so he prolly wouldn’t mind if it actually was a joke. Thing is it depends on the spirit the joke is made in and also how large the chip on your shoulder is no? For eg: if some bouncer in a club said, a lot of you pakis are in tonight eh? Then I’d be offended, but there’s no point in taking offense at what some small minded twat says eh? Other people may feel differently I guess, but in cases like this people who behave that way will usually get what’s coming to them.
Comment by Curious Yellow — February 20, 2006 @ 9:36 am
Right on Dhana.
Comment by ddm — February 20, 2006 @ 1:55 pm