Racist jokes; A response
My friend to whom I referred in my last post has been unable to post her own response bc the spaminator was convinced she’s trying to abuse me. That said, I am of the opinion that she is fairly harmless, so this is her post.
Ok “ddm” This is going to be a looong rant. Prepare yourself. First; I’m thrilled that our topic of conversation the other day got you thinking. Clearly I am making YOU a better person and you are just polluting my mind with your racist jokes.
Second:
“if I can make people laugh, surely that’s a good thing?”
Not necessarily true, I’m sure there are those that find the abuse of Iraqi prisoners absolutely hilarious — does it mean that it’s funny? Not to burst your bubble, but I think that the fact that ppl find your ‘N’ word jokes funny, is a reflection of the ppl that are laughing, not necessarily the joke.
Third; nothing you’ve said has made me change my mind & I stand by what I said the other day. One of your arguments was about having no black friends, but I dont think that is necessarily true. I also have no black friends (this is circumstance, not choice) — that right there tells you something about the british private school system & the uni we both attended and discrimination, but that’s a whole another story! — yet I would never ever use the N word or the Sa ‘K’ word to describe a black person.
I didn’t study slavery in school/civil rights movement in school, but to me, the N word spoken by any non-black just is entirely unnecessary. White slave owners used to rape, torture and beat their slaves, torch the schools of black children and generally do pretty crappy things and THEY are the ppl who used this word, if anything (imo) I think THAT’s a reason right there not to use it.
I’m not entirely sure about the cultural argument, because I would never use a word that is derogatory to Tamils, despite not knowing any (again, circumstance not choice).
Re; the ‘they use it so why can’t we’. I’d go with the mother argument, it’s ok for you to insult your own mother in front of me — but you’re not looking for me to agree with you. Similar thing. Second, it doesn’t matter if they use it. It’s not for us, as non-blacks to question the equality of the ‘rule’. If it offends them, it IS offensive. End of story.
Thing is “ddm” racist words are simply not in my vocab, so I cannot comprehend any of your “arguments”. They are rude and vile, whether or not someone of that race is within earshot or not.
I think it’s fair to reach two conclusions at this point a) I am clearly a better human being than you. b) YOUR JOKES ARE NOT FUNNY! - Racist or otherwise. Hah!
That is all for now. On another note, hope you’re feeling better now.
Your die-hard fan (stalker), you are an inspiration to us all and we all aspire to be more like you. Ohm Ohm.
A
And that’s it, none of this was edited except the ohm ohm part.
Great to hear from you
It was your excessive use of smileys that put you in the bad books with the spam blocker, unfortunately your IP address may have been blocked for good, bad form that.
Anyhow, let’s take this apart. First up, the ppl that laugh at my jokes are not racist in the least, they just appreciate the fact that none of us mean any harm, and nobody in the room at the time would be offended. It’s just a bunch of ppl having an innocent giggle. Nobody has given a decent, rational argument why such an instance is harmful. If you can do this, I may change my mind. About Iraqi prisoners, I wouldn’t find that amusing, but if someone does find it amusing then it’s their business. Who am i to judge that their sense of humour is “incorrect”? It’s just different to mine. As long as they are not insulting or harming anybody else in having their fun, I’m not going to judge them.
About white slave owners using the N word and K words, again, what made it bad was their intention and viciousness with which they said such things. In my opinion words are just vocal utterances, they carry no weight without considering the intention of the speaker.
They use it so why can’t we, and the mother response. Well, I am not talking about calling black ppl N to their face. I’m talking about a private discussion between two ppl who would not get offended by the use of such language. I still do not see why this would be morally wrong.
So, it is not end of story
p.s. i’m much improved, i hope you are the same and enjoying the sun and sand in SL. I do grudge you for that though. My boiler broke down again, i am not a happy bunny.
Comment by ddm — February 20, 2006 @ 12:19 pm
See machang, once again, joke is all in the context isn’t it? For example, take this joke,
Q: What are 3 things a black person can’t get?
A: A black eye, a fat lip and a job.
Now this is racist, but come on, it’s funny. As for your friend’s comment on the Brit educational system, it’s true that minorities are under-represented in some cases but steps are being taken to rectify that. In any case, with private schools, money doesn’t care what the colour of your skin is. So that’s pretty much a moot point, you get the grades and you get into uni. You may have noticed that a lot of private school people flunk out of uni because they can’t handle it where everything isn’t spoonfed to them, while public school kids who’ve had to work to learn seem to flourish. So the system seems pretty fair to me.
Rights for black people have been pretty much equal in the UK for a long time. The slavery abolition act was passed here in 1833, while it was made constitutional law only in 1865 in the USA following a civil war. I mean, if we can forgive the British for colonising us after 57 years then surely the Africans can forgive them after a 173 right? Also, did you know that if you’re from a minority you even get additional funding towards your education here? The only person who can keep you down in a developed country is yourself, not “The Man”, or Uncle Tom or whatever the hell they call them these days. The education is free, and if your family makes under a certain amount of money the govt will even fund your education.
But what happens when majoritites are under-represented? For example, white males are heavily under-represented in medicine, but nobody makes any noise about that do they? And it doesn’t seem that you will either.
I have some black friends. They’re Nigerian, not African-American or South African, so I’m not entirely sure they can be called niggers, there, I said it, niggers. But, I’ve spoken to them about it and the fact is, they don’t use the word. It’s simply people who want to look cool or play into some kind of gangsta rappa stereotype who perpetuate the stupidity, not educated people, because they usually have better things to do than get offended over an insult by some small minded prick,or to feel overly sensitive at some harmless joke, once again, let me emphasise that a lot depends on who tells the joke, and how. Telling a risque joke to someone you don’t know at all is a recipe for disaster in any case.
As for racist humour not being funny, or not being enjoyed by black people. Well, try watching some standup by Chris Rock, Eddie Murphy etc. Racist humour is a prominent theme in their acts, and you’ll see there are probably as many black people as there are white people in the audience. And they’re all laughing their asses off. If you want to put this to the test, I’d recommend you watch the 1st episode of season one of the chapelle show and then evaluate how you feel. Drop me a mail and I’ll give it to you if you want it.
The reason racism has become such a touchy subject is because people are constantly playing the race card for power. It’s getting silly when people demand reparations from a family who enslaved their great great grandpappy a 150 years ago. In any case, racism is more of an issue in Sri Lanka than here to be honest. I know plenty of educated people who make judgements based on what faith or race someone belongs to in Sri Lanka, while over here, people making such judgements are usually, good for nothing doleclaimers, radical clerics and the like. Charity begins at home, so before we debate the rights of balck people and the use of the N-word maybe we should look closer to home to see what we can change there?
Some humour is sick, I saw those pictures of Guantanamo bay, Iraq etc., those are things carried out by twisted creatures. For example, if I kicked a dog in the nuts and some chav brat laughed then does it mean it’s funny? No, it just means that the kid is a sick little fuck.
Racist humour, as long as it’s for the sake of humour and not to offend someone is fine by me. But I am a tree hugger, so as long as I’m drugged up I’m happy I guess?
Forgive me if this is disjointed or too long, I’m hopped up on speed and coffee, woo!
Comment by Curious Yellow — February 20, 2006 @ 2:18 pm
he he..i notice that most people who comment on this blog seem to relate to the U.K and how racism is present there. Over here in the U.S of A that country is still looked upon poorly in terms of race relations or even the economy, standardard of living and it’s rather out of touch Monarchy system that goes agains every principle of a meritocracy.
Comment by dgoda — February 20, 2006 @ 4:28 pm
ddm : this person makes an awful lot of sense though. its matter of principle. some deregotary terms and words should not be used, and this is unconditional simply because you and i are educated enough to know all the reasons why. you and i cant afford to simply ignore the historical context from which say the word ‘nigger’ is derived. and for us to KNOW it, and continue to use it simply because its a done thing now and no one really minds, its not ok. it should be by your own educated choice that you refrain from using it. sure, the use of it may be far more casual now to you than the use of it was then to the white slave owners, but the story is still the same. what’s the boundary? in order to set the boundaries, you need to live by the principle. and the principle may seem extremist and silly even, but that’s the way its got to be if you want to promote equality and human compassion. intentions cant always mean everything. there have to be certain ground rules by which you operate. of course, the most sense she makes is when she says ‘YOUR JOKES ARE NOT FUNNY! - Racist or otherwise. Hah!
amen to that.
Comment by Electra — February 20, 2006 @ 5:22 pm
well ddm how about a markets based analysis of this quandary? After looking at the costs and benefits points of view, within each market(sl,uk,us(?)), where would you end up?
Comment by ivap — February 21, 2006 @ 12:11 pm
dgoda, you’re aware that the queen is merely the ceremonial head of state and not of government, right? Oh, I forgot. You’re supposedly speaking for the US of A, all 250 million odd inhabitants. Of course you knew that.
Been to Crenshaw in LA ? To some parts of the southern US? I Good race relations and high standard of living? Don’t make me laugh. I’m not saying the UK is superior in any way, but every example you can show for a “higher standard of living” can be countered, so stop with the pissing contests already. Oops. I fed the troll.
I’m not sure I agree with Curious Yellow though; Chris Rock and Dave Chapelle are professional comedians. It’s much more difficult to mistake a comedy skit for malice in their use of the word than it is in yours. Also, they both … umm… could be called that term themselves, so their use of it qualifies as mocking themselves, if you like.
An example: you call yourself a lazy Sinhalese, I’d laugh too. If someone from another nationality called you that, there’d be this split second where you’d be trying to figure out if this was in context to humour or a genuinely disparaging remark. And like I said earlier, being quoted out of context in your attempt at humour can be embarassing.
Being aware of your potential audience and adjusting your speech accordingly is something we do all the time anyway. Why not in this case too?
Comment by drac — February 21, 2006 @ 1:50 pm
drac - on the money.
ivap - Interesting. Even within those countries it depends on who your audience is. But yeah, i wouldn’t use racially inclined humour in front of a British or American audience, regrdless of their races. Just bc i’d be unsure of their reaction. Feels safer in SL. Not that there are massive benefits either way, and the potential costs are quite high. It’s probably best to avoid it anyway, but much of this has been just to bring out the contending sides of the argument
Comment by ddm — February 21, 2006 @ 4:24 pm
Foreigners seem to be more fair-minded with their insults. For example, I’ve been called a dirty Sri Lankan but never a dirty tamil etc.
Ado, Chapelle is good though, your friend will have to admit that if he/she saw one of his shows!
Being aware of your potential audience and adjusting your speech accordingly is something we do all the time anyway. Why not in this case too?
Good point, seems like I do that even when I blog for some weird reason, I find myself thinking, will anyone take offense etc.
I think you were a bit too quick to jump on the dgoda chap, maybe he just worded his post crappily? When he says …and it’s rather out of touch maybe he means American’s view of the UK?
Comment by Curious Yellow — February 21, 2006 @ 4:56 pm
Hi, sorry didn’t mean to be a troll. I didn’t realize there were any britophiles who might get offended on this blog since I assumed most of the posters were just Srilankan expats in Britain. It’s just that from my personal experience Americans are more comfortable with other races than Brits, but there are always exceptions obviously.
Comment by dgoda — February 21, 2006 @ 7:15 pm
I don’t think I’m a britophile, just a student living in Britain. Britain has been pretty kind to me though.
I think you’ve been misinformed on some issues. Most Brits are pretty tolerant when it comes to other races, and a lot of other things to be honest. Remember that gay marriage thing? Not many here are anti homo here like over there in the good ol’ US of A and anti semitism is pretty much nonexistent. Err, also, don’t like, 70% of Americans not have a passport?
Would you mind telling us what facts you base your opinion of Americans on?
Comment by Curious Yellow — February 21, 2006 @ 8:34 pm
vis-à-vis some comments above, word ‘nigger’ was not considered insulting until middle of last (20th ) century. slave owners called their black slaves by various terms, this word was not special on that regard.
besides the original word in apanish just means ‘negro’ and is not considered offensive in south america. but then south americans are less racist than anglos.
maybe ppl become more politically correct more they become racist in fact ?
Comment by sittingnut — February 21, 2006 @ 11:53 pm
Basically from living here. Part of the American ideal is that people, regardless of their origins, should be given equal oppurtunity if they are smart or work hard. And Americans generally don’t sort of notice somebody’s race (partly because this country has a mix of so many different types of people..and if you look at the nitty gritty..everybody’s a minority in one sense or another). Again this is just the pattern I’ve noticed, there are always exceptions. Unfortunately, this ideal is not being respected much vis-a-vis the current administration. As for gay rights..you’re right..but that speaks more of the rural/urban divide than anything else. The cities tend to be more liberal while the rural states tend to be conservative.
slight correction to sittingnut..even the word negro is not considered pc anymore..maybe cuz of how close it sounds like the other n word.
Comment by dgoda — February 22, 2006 @ 2:21 am
heh, dgoda.. I didn’t get offended, but I did think you were trolling
but since I’m answering, ummm..in CA and states along the border, people of hispanic origin are stereotyped as Mexican illegals. It’s possible some of them are, for all I know.
I’m not jumping on you, just pointing out that people like Martin Luther King and Malcolm X might have promoted awareness of the rights of African Americans, but it’s probably inaccurate to say that Americans are wholly race insensitive. It’s just a different set of issues with a different race now
Comment by drac — February 22, 2006 @ 10:13 am
Americans generally don’t sort of notice somebody’s race
are they not human?
sure
trouble with political correctness is that it creates a make believe world removed from reality. imo ppl should be more honest and confront reality and get over their prejudices if they can. hiding behind words never helps.
clarification: i meant ‘negro’='nigger’ is not a racist word in spanish.
btw sorry about the grammar
Comment by sittingnut — February 22, 2006 @ 3:42 pm
drac, the hispanic people as a group don’t face the kind of race issues that African americans face or faced. The problem people rail about is more about uncontrolled immigration. You’d be surprised how Latin Americans are accepted as part of mainstream american culture. The view of the ‘racist’ south just doesn’t apply in the same scale as it used to. I even have a Latin american friend who said he’s moving to Texas from a northern state because of the large hispanic presence. I respect your opinion, but I just think it’s inaccurate to say that the same problems persist but with a different race. The civil rights movement, although promoting african american rights had an even bigger effect in changing the mentality of people towards all racial minorities. If not for the movement, us(asians) would not be accepted the way we are, I think.
sittinut: a better way to phrase that would be maybe ‘Americans generally overlook somebody’s race’
I think political correctness is necessaray though..simply because prejudices do exist, maybe ingrained in people for various reasons and not something that they can ’switch off’. Yes..there is some level of dishonesty there but it’s a necessary nonetheless..In those cases we at least help the next generation by having any bad examples for them to follow.
Comment by dgoda — February 22, 2006 @ 4:45 pm
dgoda, fair point about hispanic people not having the same problems and you’re right. My observation stemmed from the fact that I never ever heard anyone slag off an african american while I was in the states… but the same couldn’t be said about the hispanics.
Though, it was probably more about the immigration and/or illegal entry than race, as you observed.
What I still don’t get is why you think that Brits are necessarily worse at accepting other races than Americans are?
Comment by drac — February 22, 2006 @ 5:32 pm
It’s a perception a lot of people I know have. I think it has to do with the fact that the U.K (London excepted) is fairly homogeneous in comparison to the U.S. Therefore haven’t grown up with other races?..I think now this thread is generating into meaningless speculation and geralization, I accept my blame in all this
Comment by dgoda — February 23, 2006 @ 4:27 am